I Took the Solar Plunge!

[Andy Rhody]

April 20th. I posted a thread asking people around here about where they might think that the price of solar might be heading. http://www.greenpowertalk.org/showthread.php?t=17840.

You never really know for sure but I thought that the price of solar might be starting to head back up so 2 weeks ago I put up 6 Kw of grid tied solar panels. I had talked to 2 local people that did solar about 2 years ago and I took the total installation cost including parts, permits, etc, and divided it by the number of panels installed and came up with the price per panel.

Person No.1. $56,000.00 divided by 48 panels = $1166.00 per panel.

Person No.2. $45,000.00 divided by 30 panels = $1500.00 per panel.

............ Me. $14,000.00 divided by 28 panels = $500.00 per panel.

The 2 main reasons that I think made me do so well were the lower cost per watt I paid (85 cents per watt) and that I installed it with a friend who is an electrician. I paid him 1300 bucks. Lot's of hard work for a 60 year old but I'm happy! Oh, and of course Rob engineered it all. We only had a washer, a nut and 2 "L" feet left over.

Here's some Photos.

Panels were to go on left side of roof so the Norwagian Spruce on the left needed to come down.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/HPIM2045_zps92a5ce56.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/HPIM2045_zps92a5ce56.jpg.html)

We tested all 28 panels. Mix of clouds and sun that day but all were between 34 and 38 Voc.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0419_zpsdd81f4a2.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0419_zpsdd81f4a2.jpg.html)

The flashing for 2 rows of panels.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0431_zps20d9548c.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0431_zps20d9548c.jpg.html)

The "Quick Mount" flashing shown under the shingle. This insures against leaks! I thought it was well worth the price. Remember, we're talking 25 plus years.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0457_zps3bd60985.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0457_zps3bd60985.jpg.html)

To get the wiring inside we use a "Whether Head". Since it's on the North side of the panels, I don't think it will make any shadows.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0441_zps7d78e2a9.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0441_zps7d78e2a9.jpg.html)

The only half decent shot I have of the "Iron Ridge" Rails. Real nice set-up. The garage roof had "dips" in it but the rails and "L" feet allowed us to compensate for that.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0463_zps0c042eb6.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0463_zps0c042eb6.jpg.html)

My Buddy Felix using UV resistant ties to tie the wiring to the rails.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0468_zps98fcc903.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0468_zps98fcc903.jpg.html)

Panels all up.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0471_zpsc700e26e.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0471_zpsc700e26e.jpg.html)


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0473_zps3b694220.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0473_zps3b694220.jpg.html)

The Power One 6 Kw inverter. Notice the 2 lightning arestors mounted on the right hand side. They are for the 2 DC sides of the inverter. (The strings coming from the panels). There is also an AC lighting arestor on the opposite side for the AC.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0489_zpsd258f354.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0489_zpsd258f354.jpg.html)

Made 44 Kwh today and making lots of credits for our utility company every day. I'm Happy!

[Joe Blake]

Well done Andy. Hope you have a long, happy, prosperous relationship.

As they used to say in Star Trek, may the panels live long and prosper.
Joe

[Shaun Burgess]

wow tidy job Andy. I have something the same on my wish list. Did the inverter come with the ligtning arestors . :idea:

[Rob Beckers]

Absolutely beautiful Andy! Very well done!
I've rarely seen a row of panels that straight and aligned...

So I take it the electrical inspector was happy? No issues?

Could you post a picture that shows the whole array from a distance, so the building plus panels can be seen. I'm just curious what the end result looks like.

Your next challenge will be to register (and get paid) for PA's SREC scheme (or whatever it's called over there).

Really good to see that after all the effort this came together so nicely!

-RoB-

[Andy Rhody]

Thanks Rob, my friend Felix is a top notch carpender, roofer, etc, so aligning and leveling the panels is just his style. One thing that is not perfect is that the rails extend beyond the panels about 4 inches or so on each side so had we not done that, we could have hidden all the alumunum rails which don't cosmedically match the black frames on the panels but that doesn't bother me at all.

Here's the Photo. Notice that the garage is right next to the road:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0478_zpsa98ea545.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0478_zpsa98ea545.jpg.html)

The electric inspector which is the local code people did a "rough inspection" and later did a "final inspection". He was happy with both. Thanks Rob for walking me through the wiring diagram. I was handling the utility company with "kid gloves". Remember, even though I already have a windmill REAP agreement with them, I'm obligated by law to contact them about and changes or additions. I sent the guy the wiring diagram and he approved it but after we got it installed, I called him to find out what I needed to do to square up with them and he never returned my call. I told the local inspector guy that when he came to do the final inspection and he said, "Hey, I put a sticker on the box, just turn it on and don't worry about". The utility company guy never did return my call and we got our bill today so it looks like everything's cool.

Yes Rob, I've contacted Pa's SREC. They seem receptive. I just need to get the ball over the goal. (SREC is a state program that pays money for carbon credits).

[Rob Beckers]

Looks better than many an installation I've seen that was done by the pros.

I remember a drawing with your rafters shown on it, that was used to figure out where to put L-feet. Looking back at that, what was missing is the outline of the two rows of panels on it. I must have assumed the panels would run end-to-end (or more likely, weren't thinking too much about where the panels would be at all).

We're having lots of sun here, so with a little luck you'll clock a good number of kWh's before the winter really hits. If you get signed up for SREC that would make good money too; if I recall your roof would generate a couple hundred bucks a year.

-RoB-

[Andy Rhody]

We made 8 Kwh today and it rained all day. Wow! The windmill rarely ever made that much in one day. It's record is 13 Kwh in one day. The solar made 44 Kwh yesterday.

Shaun Said:

Did the inverter come with the ligtning arestors .

No Shaun, I bought everything from Solacity except house wire, nuts and bolts, and stuff like that. Rob added the arrestors to the package and emailed me photos of how to hook them up. It wasn't real complecated.

I have a bit of a history with lightning. Long story but here goes. This solar set-up is on our garage which is about 120 feet from our house. Our house is a 160 year old farm house which once was attached to the garage but because they was so close to a public road, we moved the house away from the garage 15 years ago. Before we moved the house, it would get struck by lightning maybe once or twice a year. Lots of lightning stories in my wife's family. It has big old fashioned lightning rods on the roof which I'm sure played a big role in it's history but anyway, about 30 years ago, we had a storm in the middle of the night and we all got up to close the windows. Everone knows not to use the tolet in a lightning storm (espically when attached to a cast iron pipe) but I had to "Pee" (or urinate). I figured I could pee within 20 seconds or so so I took the risk and WHAMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Fire shot out of both of my "Achilles Tendons". It felt like when you shuffle your feet across a rug and touch a lightswitch but at the intensity of sticking you finger in a "110 socket". I saw a bluish light on the floor. You know how when lightning flashes and then you count the seconds between the flash and the thunder? The flash, thunder, telephone ring and my zap were totally simultaneous! Yes it knocked out the phone line too.

So anyway, when Rob and I were talking about lightning resistors, as far as I was concerned, MONEY WAS NO OBJECT!

Lighting is funny. We moved our house around 120 feet and about 13 feet higher in elevation and only got struck once or twice in 15 years. Can't figure it out.

Anyway we grounded the panels with No.6 copper wire and attacked it to a buried a 8 foot copper grounding rod about 4 inches below the surface.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0452_zpsdbdd01cb.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0452_zpsdbdd01cb.jpg.html)

Here's a photo of the 8 foot copper grounding rod aprox. 4 inches below ground level before it was buried.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/andy47bottles/Science/SANY0456_zpsff785768.jpg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/andy47bottles/media/Science/SANY0456_zpsff785768.jpg.html)

[Joyce Nicholls]

Hi Andy,

I am most impressed with your installation. Great Job!

I know it is possible to save a ton of money if you build the panels yourself from components bought at a hardware store.

Did you build your panels yourself, or were they ready made?

Again, well done,

regards, Joyce

[Andy Rhody]

Hi Joyce, thanks for stopping in.

No I did not build the panels myself but if you look at my 1st post, you'll see that my costs were much less than other local people. I credit that to lower price per watts now days, installing them myself and a good deal I got from our webmaster "Rob".

I don't know if Rob deals with South Africa but he's from Canada and pulled some strings for me here in the USA.

If you're thinking about solar, email him some questions. His answeres and advise gave me the courage to make it happen.

[Joyce Nicholls]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. The cost of ready made solar panels here in South Africa is very high, and one has to weigh up the total outlay cost against the monthly savings on the electricity bill, (how long it would take to recover the capital outlay.) Maybe the best time to go Solar is when building a new home, or when doing major alterations.

Personally I believe that we should all make our way to living a greener life, which is what I do in as many areas as I can. With regard to electricity saving, I have a timer on my geyser, it comes on for 3 hours twice a day, In addidition the temp is turned down so that no cold water is required when showering. I also have the geyser blanket wrapped.

We have such a wonderful sunny climate here is South Africa, we should all go solar.

This project is on my bucket list.

Again, be proud of what you have achieved, you are a shining example.

Joyce

[Andy Rhody]

Thanks joyce. Keep thinking. You never know.

I'll get a 30% rebate from our US government and with that I'm thinking that the system will pay for it's self in 13 years. The panels are warrented for 25 years and electric cost will probably only go up.

[Tom Hoffer]

Hi Andy
Nice Job! You did that project for the right price. Like you, I have a wind mill that is a little light on return. No regrets, learned a lot, but am thinking some solar is in my future. Keep us informed on how your system is performing.

Tom Hoffer

[Andy Rhody]

Thanks Tom. I'll hit about 725 Kwh this month and this is my 1st month. Can't wait until spring and summer.

Top Kwh for the windmill was 93 Kwh in Feburary and lowest was only 3 in August so my wind verses solar is not near balanced but as winter's coming and the solar is slowing down, the windmill is starting to rise back up again just like it's supposed to.

Have you posted any pictures of your windmill?

[Andy Rhody]

Here's an update:

Our 6.8 KW system has been in opperation for exactly one year.

I was told by an installer that what you should expect from your system is your panel wattage times 1.2 for an annunal output.

I have 6.8 KWs in panels but only have a 6 Kw inverter. If you times 6 KW which is the inverter size by 1.2 you get 7.2 Kwhs for the year but if you times it by 6.8 which is the panel size, you get 8.1 Kwhs.

Well we've made 8.7 Kwhs this year so hey, who can complain about that. We average 10,000 Kwhs or less a year so I guess I could consider it to be 87% and since the windmill does well over 5%. This year we're at least over 90% of our utility bill easy.

Gettin ready to retire,

Thanks Rob.

[Rob Beckers]

Pretty good Andy!
As they get older the panel output will drop a little. The number usually thrown around is 0.5% less per year, so it's not huge. Each year will be different too of course; there are more and less sunny years.

-RoB-

[Tom Hoffer]

Hi Andy
Thanks for the update. Some basic math tells me you are very close on your 13 year payback prediction. Solar has come a long way toward return on investment these last few years. Have you got any projects in mind once you retire? Maybe you'll become a solar installer.
Nice setup!
Tom Hoffer

[Andy Rhody]

Thanks Tom. I did some math today. 8700 Kws times 8.8 US cents per Kw equals $765 in savings this year. At that rate the system will pay for itself in 12.8 years. Now Rob said above that the panels will drop 0.5% a year so I figure that it will take a bit over 13 years but remember, this is just the cost of the power we're saving. When I installed the system last year, I had no clue that I could sell "Clean Energy" credits on an open market. (Thanks for that one Rob). That's a whole new ball game. Here in the USA the government forces utility companies to buy Clean Energy credits from people like me to cut down on polluting energies. This is the "GATS" program.

Here's an idea how it works. The defination of a credit is 1000 Kws so in my case I make about 8 credits a year. They sell on a fluctuating market like the stock market. Right now around here (Pennsylvania), they are selling for about 45 dollars a credit. That means that I should make about 360 dollars this year. Hey, if it goes that way for 10 years, I'll have the system paid for in maybe 10 years. Now the people that sell these things say that there are rumors the it could hit 350 bucks a credit. Should that come true, I'll be making almost 3 grand a year besides what I'm saving on power. I can pay it off in less that 4 years. It sounds crazy but in the neighboring state of New Jersey I think credits are selling for 4 or 450 a credit.

Nothing to do but wait and see.

[Rob Beckers]

Andy, did you figure out how to actually sell those credits? And if you don't sell them, can you 'collect' multiple years to sell later (presumably when they are worth more)?

-RoB-

[Andy Rhody]

Yes, Rob I finally got things together to sell the credits with a Broker or whatever from the Penn State Extension office but I have to wait in line. He watches the market and tries to get the best price. I registered 1st with the state of Pennsylvania and then Gats. It took months and months of phone calls and such but after I connected to the Penn State guy, I learned that had I hooked up with him at 1st, he would have handled all the hassle. It's a learning curve. Most Brokers only handle solar but the the Penn State guy also does wind credits so I went with him. Right now wind credits are selling for about 15 dollars a credit. Not too much but it's a free market. You never know.

He told me that credits go "stale" in 2 years but any credits under 2 years old can be sold.

[Rob Beckers]

Well, even at 15 bucks a credit it's still 120 bucks in 'free' money. Not a bad deal! I don't know if carbon credits such as these will ever get worth much more: There seems to be a movement afoot to do away with carbon trading. It seemed a good idea when it was introduced, but as with many things it has been perverted to the point of just making a few wealthy companies and people more wealthy without accomplishing its goal.

-RoB-