More research

[Scott Welch]

I have access to a stream on the property with these details. Looking into the Ontario Micro-fit program.

1. About 600-700 yards away from house
2. About 10 ft head
3. About 300 gal/min at low flow in winter - Way more in the spring , summer and fall
Is this even possible with the distance, either pipe the water a long way (would be down hill, adding more head) or wiring from site to house.

Not a electrician so I don't know the math
1Kw will produce how much at month end? (24/7) multiply by .13/ Kw =?

I've done a lot of searching and can't come up with the things I'm needing.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Russ Bailey]

Hi Scott,

A couple of links to allow you to see what you have -
1) http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/Hydro/Hydro_index.shtml
2) Micro hydro calculator http://www.alternate-energy.net/micro_hydro_calc.html

Good flow but 10 foot of head is not much.

Russ

[Rob Beckers]

Hi Scott,

Welcome to Green Power Talk!
According to the calculator Russ linked to, you have the potential to extract about 17kW from that stream. That's quite substantial! I'm no hydro expert, so I'll leave it to the experts to chime in what's possibly under real-life conditions.

To convert from power (Watt) to energy (kWh) you multiply by time. So, say, 10 kW continuous would net you 24 *10 = 240 kWh per day, or 30.5 * 240 = 7,320 kWh per month. MicroFIT pays 13.1 cents per kWh, so that works out to $950 per month. Hydro is a great energy source because it runs 24x7, reliably. That adds up.

-RoB-

[Russ Bailey]

Hi Guys - I came out a bit lower

300 gpm * 3,75 = liters per min / 60 = liters per sec = 18.75 or say 20

10 foot of head = approximately 3 meters

from the calculator 20 lpm and 3 meters head = 589 watts * turbine efficiency

say 60% efficency = 353 watts

Russ

[Rob Beckers]

Russ, I like the way you put that: "a bit lower"... :nuts:

You're right of course, I took the gallons per minute, converted to liters, and plugged that into a field that expected liters per second. As I said, don't know much about hydro. :embarrassedt:

-RoB-

[Russ Bailey]

Hi Rob,

Wasn't it a Mars shot that NASA completely missed the target due to a minor conversion? The only minor error that counts is the one that gets away.

Always fun working between systems! Wish the powers would actually phase out the old system (English) and make the entire world metric. So much easier to work with.

The inches, pounds and feet would still be around for 50 years or more as so many standards, specs and on are in English.

In India everything is metric until it comes to engineering and then it is multi-system. Everyone has to know ASME/API/ANSI/DIN/BS as well as Indian standards.

Russ

[Scott Welch]

Mind bending

So using Russ figures and Robs math
353 x 30.5 days x .13cents = $1399
Right or wrong?

[Rob Beckers]

Alas, Scott, it's not that good: Russ' numbers say 350 Watt. That's only 0.35 kW (since 1 kiloWatt equals 1000 Watt). So, 0.35 * 24 hours = 8.4 kWh per day. Or in a month that makes 8.4 * 30.5 = 256 kWh per month. Paying 13.1 cents per kWh that works out to 0.131 * 256 = $33.53 per month.

-RoB-

[Scott Welch]

That's close to what I worked out the first time I did the math but thought "that can't be right" Even if you X by 10 KW for 10 generators that's not big payback. At max stream flow it could probable handle the demand.

My main problem however is the distance from the house to the stream.
Either voltage drop in the wiring at 600yds or piping the water 600yds and depositing it other than the stream it came from (ministry approval problems)

This seems like a good source of much needed power when we need it or a waste of a good stream to let this go, so I will keep surfing.

[Rob Beckers]

Voltage drop or line losses should be manageable by using a high-voltage alternator. A Power-One Aurora wind inverter can be used for hydro, they handle up to 600V DC input. You can rectify close to the alternator, then use aluminum wiring to the inverter to transport high-voltage DC.

Let's take a case where you're able to produce 10kW (which doesn't look like you have the water flow for, so just as a hypothetical): Say this rectifies to roughly 400V DC. Makes for 25A current. If we want to keep losses under 2%, that means a maximum of 0.16 Ohm resistance per leg of wiring. That works out to using 2 AWG wiring, not that bad (that's 0.25 Ohm per 1000 feet, or 0.15 Ohm for 600 feet).

I don't have current prices for 2 AWG Alu wire, my electrician usually deals with that end. It's not all that expensive though. Couple hundred for the 1200 feet you would need.

-RoB-

[Russ Bailey]

No chance of getting more head? That is what is needed.

[Scott Welch]

Russ

That message could be red flagged!

I have a friend who is x-Ont Hydro, I am going to talk to him on price, transformers,etc.
I'll see if tomorrow if I can get a better head measurement