New Product Evaluation

[Ric Murphy]

Good Day All,
Not sure how many of you folks are using Outback components in your RE systems but I thought I’d share some personal feedback with you on one of their new products. Last fall they released their FLEXnet DC battery monitor. I was able to get my hands on one a few weeks ago and so far am very happy with it. Outback gear has always had a significant accuracy problem in its data reporting. For the life of me I can’t understand how this problem can exist on such a fine product line but it does. The other problem I have with my system was the inability to log wind data from my turbine. The FLEXnet has solved both of these issues. The FLEXnet allows connection and monitoring of up to 3 shunts anywhere within the system. In my case I have one between the battery and the inverter, a second between the charge controller and the battery and the 3rd between the turbine rectifier and the battery. The unit is connected thru a hub network to the Outback MATE controller the same way all the other Outback components are. By scrolling thru the MATE screens the user can view the shunt data in real time, accumulated data for the day or historical data going back as far as the last 128 days. The MATE also has a rolling screen option. When activated the MATE will scroll thru a number of pertinent screens displaying each for about 10 seconds. I have been collecting system data for the last year using a program called Wattplot (not that the data was accurate). This software was developed specifically for the Outback gear by a guy here in Ontario. Although the software is awesome, it is only as good as the data being rec’d from the MATE controller. Now with the improved accuracy provided by the FLEXnet and shunts it really is a sweet combo. Below are some samples of data collected over the last 2 weeks generated by the FLEXnet as displayed by Wattplot.
The first picture is of the main screen that I leave up all the time. Across the top is the Snapshot Bar showing current status of the inverter (FX-1), the Flexnet shunts 1-3 (DC-3) and the MX60 solar charge controller (MX-4). Shown below that is a penplot for the 3 shunts. Data is rec’d once per second from the Mate and plotted in real time. The data can be compressed 60:1 which is how I usually set it. Wattplot generates a penplot for each device connected to the MATE. Hovering the mouse over any point along the penplot displays the actual data and time. Now that I have the FLEXnet I usually only have to view its penplot. Each night at midnight Wattplot takes that day’s data for each device and dumps it into a spreadsheet (one spreadsheet per device). At the end of each month Wattplot will close out that month’s spreadsheets and start new ones. The spreadsheets make it very easy to chart or graph production data. The spreadsheet below was generated from the FLEXnet data with some revisions. The highlited columns were imported from the Inverter and MX60 spreadsheets. A few other columns were deleted. Although both these products are designed for Outback gear, I think it would be possible to use them with many other products. In addition to Wattplot and the FLEXnet, you would also need an Outback MATE ($295) and hub ($195). Not necessarily the most cost effective option but it will do a good job of data monitoring and logging. So after 3 years I’m finally able to get an accurate picture of my systems performance. I’m looking forward to collecting data over the next year in order to evaluate my specific site for wind and solar.
Ric
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[Rob Beckers]

Thank you for the review Ric! I was interested in hearing how the FLEXnet DC worked, and am happy to hear it's working so well.

I was talking to an Outback rep last weekend (who is also one of their tech support people for the "difficult cases"); they are currently in a major overhaul cycle for all their gear. Fixing the low resolution issue is one of the items on the list. Seems the reason for the low resolution is not so much because it is measured so poorly, but to save bytes in storing it. Another interesting tidbit was that the FLEXnet DC was in part made to address the issue of automatic generator start. Most people use the 'aux' port on the inverter for this purpose, but the inverter's internal fan also runs of off this same port. Switching it for generator use means that cooling becomes an issue, and the inverter may auto-derate because of temperature. The FLEXnet adds another 'aux' port to the system, that can be used for generator control (through the Mate).

Besides WattPlot (http://www.intellact.ca/energy/wattplot.htm)there is another source for good third-party software for Outback products, WinVerter by Righthand Engineering (http://www.righthandeng.com/hm_wvmfx.htm). The Outback rep spoke highly of both products.

-RoB-

[Ric Murphy]

Hi Rob,
I looked at Winverter when I first installled my system about 3 years ago and wasn't impressed. They have been around much longer than Wattplot so not surprised Outback speaks well of them. Not sure but I think Winverter has been updated and may be more functional now. The spreadsheets are what sold me on Wattplot. Glad to hear Outback is finally addressing the accuracy issue. However it doesn't help anyone with existing product.
Ric

[Julie Haugh]

Hi Rob,
I looked at Winverter when I first installled my system about 3 years ago and wasn't impressed. They have been around much longer than Wattplot so not surprised Outback speaks well of them. Not sure but I think Winverter has been updated and may be more functional now. The spreadsheets are what sold me on Wattplot. Glad to hear Outback is finally addressing the accuracy issue. However it doesn't help anyone with existing product.
Ric

OutBack doesn't speak well of any of the products -- Intallact has taken out-of-context statements by employees of OutBack and turned them into claimed product endorsements.

OutBack is aware that Intallact is making unapproved claims of product endorsement, but has been unable to make them stop.

It does appear that Intallact has quit the business as there hasn't been a new WattPlot update in =months=. Some of my customers have told me that Intallact has been unable to solve problems with Windows 7, as well as 64-bit versions of Windows. I do know that the most recent (Feb '10) version of WattPlot is still for Windows XP -- and the installation instructions for Vista and 7 both suggest using a separate hard disk (as if!) as well as XP emulation mode.

[Dan Lenox]

Ric,

I've recently ported my PowerDashboard software to work with the OutBack product line. What I found out is that for some data values OutBack use whole integer values.

Specifically rounding is done with all the current readings from the inverter and charge controllers, while the FlexNet device does report current at 1/10 amp intervals. Voltage data values are given in 1/10 volt increment.

It appears that everyone that makes software for Outback provide a 'fudging' factor to help alleviate accuracy, and it is not a fix for the issue but does help bring things back in line - to some extent.

Dan Lenox

[Andrew Welch]

Besides WattPlot (http://www.wattplot.com)there is another source for good third-party software for Outback products, WinVerter by Righthand Engineering (http://www.righthandeng.com/hm_wvmfx.htm). The Outback rep spoke highly of both products.

-RoB-

Hi Rob:

I'm not surprised that your OutBack rep spoke highly of WinVerter as well. Randy is a great guy who writes solid software. He was a trailblazer for both OutBack and Xantrex products. I hear he is now working on new tools for Bergey equipment too. Well done!

As for WattPlot, we are as busy as ever, and continue to focus on tools for monitoring OutBack devices on any Windows platform. You should note that our URL has changed since your original post though - it is now simply WattPlot.com (http://www.wattplot.com).

By the way, Dan, the OutBack FLEXmax 60/80 line of charge controllers now reports charging amps at 1/10 intervals as well, further improving the precision of the available data.

[Julie Haugh]

It appears that everyone that makes software for Outback provide a 'fudging' factor to help alleviate accuracy, and it is not a fix for the issue but does help bring things back in line - to some extent.

Dan Lenox

The truncation problem with OutBack data is fairly well understood. Back in 2007, I introduced the first of the "truncation correction" algorithms to the software that became greenMonitor (http://www.greenhousepc.com/greenMonitor.html). The basic idea is to calculate the statistically most likely correct value for the truncated amount, then insert that value into various calculations. The result is that I can do far better than the 50/50 solution that certain competitors of mine "borrowed" without giving credit. How I do that is a secret -- certain competitors already "borrowed" the basic idea, not going to give them more secret info ;)

The problem isn't rounding, in the 4/5 sense of rounding, it's straight up truncation, with a loss of all values less than a whole number -- floor() function, not ceil(). For example, if the inverter is producing 1.999 amps, it reports 1, the same as if it's producing 1.000 amps. We've been looking at adding split core transducer support to our product, but they are all very expensive. The TED 5000, which is readily available, has the ability to support CT's (you buy them when you buy the TED 5000) and we can read those values from the TED 5000 gateway. That's what my clients who need more accurate values for power production and consumption use. That's where I'd go -- add either TED 5000 or some other AC power monitor support to your product.